Ron Gilbert:"Pirates of the Caribbean PIRATES LeChuck'

[Mr Pumblechook]

Ron Gilbert in his Grumpy Gamer blog criticises the new P.O.C movie for pirating the design (get it!) of Zombie Pirate Lechuck from Monkey Island 2.

So, I'm looking through my neighbor's window with a pair of binoculars, trying to see the TV to figure out if they have HBO that I can steal when the latest trailer for the new Pirates of the Caribbean movie [Dead Man's Chest] comes on and I'm thinking to myself, "Hey, I've seen this before... no... I've played this before... no... I've designed this before!" I'm thinking "This is the Monkey Island Movie!" Yeah, they kind of screwed up his beard, but that's LeChuck, and let's be honest, if I'd thought of the squid tentacles for a beard, I would have done that.

http://grumpygamer.com/8123463

What with Gilbert having been inspired by the Pirates theme park ride the irony is too much to bare...

His website has various comments on the forum which claim M.I. games are referenced in the first film.

Gaming website Kotaku also has a pic comparison.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/pirates/ro ... 3.php#more

[Captain Raptor]

Well, don't anyone flame me or anything but I'm pretty sure there were at LEAST a few references. That's no coincidence (well it might but it takes the fun out of it) that Mr. Davy Jones heavily resembles Zombie LeChuck on the box.

[Covskin]

Yeah, I also saw that. It would appear the whole thing is meant to be ironic. We all know where Ron got the idea from, and I'm pretty certain Ron hasn't forgotton.

Seems to me its just a joke at the amount of people who constantly claim PotC ripped-off MI.


That's not to say there aren't coincidences and possible references, but I think he's overplaying it there for humour.

[Marley]

Well i agree with the second post-too much to be a coincidence.

[I say I say, a pirate]

There are enormous similarities between the two; both Davy Jones and LeChuck are King of the Underworld per say; both have an army of minions at their command and both have a hatred for the protagonists (Guybrush and Jack Sparrow).

A main difference I guess is that their objectives in the story; LeChuck wants Elaine Marley, more than killing Guybrush I believe. Davy Jones wants Jack Sparrow's life as he owes it to him.

Of course many similarities have been noticed between the two; POTC and MI, the mysterious Isla de Muerta is similar to Monkey Island, the Chest of Cortez like Big Whoop. The whole plot of DMC to find the chest of Davy Jones is like the plot of MI2 to find Big Whoop. Most pointedly in the first film is when the Black Pearl attacks Port Royal; very similar to LeChuck's attack at the beginning of CMI. Even the characters of Barbossa and LeChuck have been compared before; though not as similar as Davy Jones and LeChuck.

[ahmad]

Don't forget the voodoo lady in the swamp. I'm not sure but I think that there's a scene from DMC that does pretty much the same thing. Even better, Sparrow goes to see her to escape from Davy Jones. Hmm, ironic indeed.

Still, no complaints, CBP is one of my favorite movies and I don't doubt that DMC will be just as good.

[ozzie212121]

There are enormous similarities between the two

agreed, to be honest.. when they found the dead mans chest on the island and they opened it.. i was half expecting to see Big Whoop sitting there .. justa t-shirt :|

[TexasPete]

PoC is a complete rip off of MI. Even though Ron got the idea from the ride, he wrote the story. PoC almost copied Ron's work word for word. I am suprised Ron and LucasArts haven't sued.

[Marley]

TexasPete what are you on about?

Anything that mixes pirates with voodoo is going to be similar. Sure, some of the ideas must have been ripped off but look at Guybrush with the Dog and in MI2. That was an exact copy of PotC ride.....

Plus, Ron said about PotC i think for Commercial reasons. sure he may have got some of the ideas for puzzles off the ride but he has said (on the same site) that really it was the book 'On Stranger Tides' which he copied to come up with the idea for MI and although that book is dark it is extremely similar in many ways and you can see some of the puzzles and fights (ghost ships, ghost crew and more that are really specific but can't remember. Haven't read the book in ages).

And in PotC 2 i saw a blatant rip off of the book-when Elizabeth (knightley) it making the 'puppet' ghost (the worst part in the movie), in the On Stranger Tides book something very similar to that happens except with a dead guy as the 'puppet'

Face it, theres less originality now and people do copy each other

[raVen_image]

I am suprised Ron and LucasArts haven't sued.

This sentence defeats your thesis.

Firstly, Gilbert doesn't own the rights to MI so he is incapable of filing a suit. LucasArts owns the rights. Secondly, LucasArts is infamous for jealously protecting their intellectual properties. Why do you suppose they haven't sued Disney? I'll tell you why. Because no infringement has taken place. PotC is a wholly original work. It has not stolen one single idea from the MI games. At best, it has paid homage but even that is debatable. Trust me, if LucasArts could show copyright infringement, they would file suit because, unlike shutting down a fan game, they could make big money from suing Disney.

I recommend that you experience the theme ride to prove this to yourself. Once you do, you'll see that, if anything, MI rips off Disney. (Not really, but Disney's ride did come first and served as inspiration.)

Let's also keep in mind that Lucas and Disney have collaborated in the past. By all accounts, their relationship is a good and profitable one. Let's suppose that the next PotC movie introduces a ghost pirate named, "LeChuck." It's safer to assume that LucasArts gave Disney permission to use the character in order to revitalize the MI fan base. And won't Ronny-Boi be in a snit then because he willingly gave up all claims to future profits from his characters.

[Traitorfish]

PotC is a wholly original work.

Well, no, it's not, it's fairly derivative and generic. But no more so than MI, which is really what matters here- every element of MI that PotC supposedly "stole" can be found in earlier sources (including, as Raven mentioned, the actual PotC ride), and it's more likely that both MI and PotC were inspired by these sources, with no actual connection between the two.
Anyway, most of Pirate fiction is derived from Treasure Island, so the only one who has any right to complain is Robert Loius Stevenson. When LucasArts receives permission to use all of the elements that MI took from TI (including the fairly obvious similarity in name) from Stevenson's estate, then they can sue Disney, but until then, they're stuck.

[raVen_image]

Well, no, it's not, it's generic.

Agreed!. But legally that makes it "original," which only emphasises my point.

As for the incoherent and rambling Gilbert ... well ... I think his blog-post is meant to be a joke but if he's serious, then he is a fool.

[Captain Chaotica]

Hmm...I don't know how close it is to the game in _legal_ terms, but I do know that when I saw this movie, it was like on the same DAY after I barely finished MI2 (and MI1 shortly before that), so...I was _on_ Monkey Island, as if it was a drug almost, when I saw this. Seriously. I kept seeing things in the movie in that light so much that I kept giggling like an idiot at the wrong....est times. It was fun, but someday I'd like to see the movie as ITSELF... But as the timing worked out, my brain was very strongly in this other groove for the entire watching and would _not_ get out.

Anyway, I kept saying things to myself/the screen like:
(during the bit where the cannibals are about to eat Will)
"Hey, no, you don't wanna eat him--do you have any idea how much _cholesterol_ is in one of those things?"
or...when Jack Sparrow is rowing in the coffin:
"Hey, whaddya know, they ARE seaworthy!"
Or...when he said "I have to go see..." (mysterious voice) "_her_." my brain went, "Her? Her who? Wait a minute...they're in a swamp, pirates, not to mention curse and cannibals...OH my gods, they're gonna go see THE VOODOO LADY! OH MY _HECK_!" and then I had to make an effort not to fall on the floor laughing. Totally inappropriate since the scene was _not_ meant to be funny, but I couldn't help it.

And the occasional totally unnecessary but fun (to me, anyway, at the time) reference such as, when Elizabeth got rid of the dress: "NO! Will needed that for the Mardi-Gras party!"

So, in summary: Similar enough to cause real-world problems? I'm staying away from that whole issue since I don't know enough about it. Similar enough to give tons of extra, (probably) unintended enjoyment to Monkey Island fans? You bet!
(Well, I'm more easily amused than some I'm sure, but still...)

...Notorious

[Ferder]

The other similarity between POTC and MI is how much the plot of Dead Man's Chest is like a computer game from the way it's all about a quest, to the way objects are used ("give UNDEAD MONKEY to VOODOO LADY", "use BIG POLE with FRUIT", "use GUN with COFFIN" etc).

[Hande]

I maintain that PotC and MI are merely similar and that is all. The screenwriters don't appear to even know about the existance of Monkey Island so people's suggestion of any big rip-off scheme from Disney/Jerry Bruckheimer is completely off (as it has been for any other occasion where Disney's been accused of ripping off previous items of interest).

It's a cheap swing at Mickey Mouse and one that is more likely to land in the face of the accusor.